Red Knights

[Khanzal]

For those that don't know, Jaral and I have been trying to make contact with some other small guilds to get into some of the end-game content. The smaller guilds we're interested in would share our basic maturity level and play-style.

One of these guilds is the Red Knights.

Their forum address is http://www.red-knights.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1094&st=0&#entry8564

I talked to a couple of them on their forums. I also gave them our forum address so we may be hearing from some of them shortly. :)


- Khan

[Mastakilla]

No offense to the Red Knights, but how many members do they have? Never ran into one of them. Once again, no disrespect.

[Khanzal]

Other than their posting on the WOW forums, I hadn't heard of them before either. I'm not sure off hand how many members they have (let alone how many active level 60s). From my brief discussions with them, it appears that they do not have enough high-levels to sustain a raid on certain end-game dungeons all by themselves. And neither do we. So an alliance should help us both out (I would say 'a horde would help us both out, but anyway :) ).

The Red Knights are not likely to be the last small guild we try to get together with either. There are many smaller guilds that have focussed on quality members rather than quantity; or are a group of RL friends that don't want people other than their RL friends in the guild (but would like to play with other players for the end-game stuff) or many other reasons.

What I'm hoping for is a larger player base to draw from when we decide to run Molten Core, Oxy or BWL.

Scenario:
- We're putting together a raid for Blackwing Lair (40-man raid group)
- In our guild we have roughly 20 level 60s, let's say half of them can make it.
- We still have 30 openings to fill.
- We send a tell to the liasons with some of our guild alliance friends.
- We fill the remaining spots with people from allied guilds to get the whole 40

If the guilds we align ourselves with are serious about getting good members, we don't even need to know the specific people from those guilds (My underlying assumption is that quality guilds will try to get quality players).

At any rate, there is nothing definiate about us being allies with anyone right now. Jaral and I will talk to the leadership in the Red Knights, probably hold some kind of "getting-to-know-you" type raids and then go from there.

[Ghost_of_War]

One thing to note is that we've been allied with LOST PATROL since our creation. They came into being about the same time we did and we have done a few instance runs with them in the past. Thier leader is Brimariis. (Spelling may not be right.) They have about 10 members left, mostly 60s. I've spoken with them before about merging their guild into ours but Brim does not want to go that route at this time. In any case, they would be a good group to check with for grouping as well.

[]RK[Mensrea]

Hi guys, Mensrea from the Red Knights here. I wanted to stop by and thank Khan and Jaral for initiating contact and then following up by posting on our forums. While I'm here, hopefully I can answer some of your questions.

Our clan has its origins from the mid-90s, when Grovel (aka Hippie) was a founding member of a clan called the Rabbid Saints. That clan formally folded in 2003 and a core group went on to form the Red Knights. We've been active in Raven Shield, Ghost Recon, Planetside, and Battefield 2.

We had players in open beta of WoW, ad started our guild on Shattered Hand. We were active members of the Horde Raiding Society on SH, which was a coalition of smaller guilds whose members worked togther on a regular basis for raids and PvP. When the server transfers opened up, most of the Raiding Society came over, and we decided to move with them. We lost a significant portion of our newer recruits when we made the move to BS and went back to our core membership. At this point, we have built back up close to the levels we were at before, but have been a bit more selective in who we have added. The raiding society basically collapsed when its leading figure, Mufassa, had to take a leave of absence.

Right now, we have 13 level 60 players who can be counted on to play on a regular basis. By that, I mean they are on 3-4 times a week and will show up for guild events if they are planned. We have another handful of players in the high 50s who should be to 60 by the time ZulGurub opens. Some of us have been 60 for a long time and are very well equipped. Some of us (like me) made that level recently and are going thru places like Strath and Scholo to get started with the high end gear. We have an even distribution of players across classes. We are strongest at mage and weakest at warrior (we've got 2, but they need major moves up in gear).

Some of our better known members are:

Kharma: Our best PvP'er, he is a fully geared up Shaman. Consistently in the top 5 ranks of PvP on the server.

Grovel: The Guild commander, he is also a major player on the PvP front as a mage.

Mayhemon: Division leader for WoW, and a priest who is very experienced in playing that role in large PvE raids.

We currently are building an alliance relationship with the guilds The Furi, Symphony of Light, Thought Police and Order of Malice. By an alliance relationship, I am referring to guilds that we do planned raids with and look to on a regular basis for grouping. Our objective is to be able to go into MC with a group of 40 players from this alliance that are familiar enough with each other that a level of trust has developed. In order to build that trust, we will be doing joint raids on Scholo, Strath, BRS, DM and going thru the keying process together.

The other important factor is that each guild respects its individuality. One problem that developed in the original HRS was a larger guild constantly badgering members of other guilds to just merge into them. If this is going to work, we must resoect each other and not try to strip our allies of its members.

From a philosophical standpoint, we are a casual, fun oriented guild. Most of our members are older, with full time jobs. We like to play to win, but stay focused on having a good time while playing, win or lose.

Anyway, this post is about 5 times as long as I originally set it out to be. :D I hope it answered som of your questions, and I look forward to seeing you guys in game. Hopefully, we'll be able to get all of our members into the end game content; its gonna take some work, but I think the pay off is worth it.

Thaks for your interest,

Mensrea
Exec. Officer, Red Knights

[]RK[Mensrea]

Just to give you guys an update, it looks like things are really starting to pick up on the alliance front. We are trying to weed thru the politics of everything, but it looks like there are about 5 guilds that would seem to be a good fit. If there is another guild that you guys think would like to get in the ground floor, please have em stop by our forums.

Essentially, we want everyone who will be participating to start at ground zero, as far as loot distribution. There's no way to get away from some sort of point system to determine drops. What seems to be a major issue is when there is a dominat guild that starts the point system before other are allowed in. The dominant members get an insurmountable points lead and the latecomers get nothing but big repair bills. We want to give everyone who works with us a legitimate opportunity to benefit from the raids.

I'll keep dropping by with updates as things flesh out!

[Ghost_of_War]

RK[Mensrea']Essentially, we want everyone who will be participating to start at ground zero, as far as loot distribution. There's no way to get away from some sort of point system to determine drops. What seems to be a major issue is when there is a dominat guild that starts the point system before other are allowed in. The dominant members get an insurmountable points lead and the latecomers get nothing but big repair bills. We want to give everyone who works with us a legitimate opportunity to benefit from the raids.

Can you provide me a link that describes how this looting process works?

[]RK[Mensrea]

Well, that's still being hammered out :). As soon as we get a concrete formula down, I'll post a link.

What we are trying to avoid is a situation that happened in another system where points were awarded by the lead guild for any raids over 5 man that went on. That guild would raid Strath, Scholo, and BRS with only guild members, then award points that were used in MC and Onyx runs. You can see that an approach like that will never allow for a true allaince, but instaed creatre subordinate guilds that get little for their efforts.

[stapuf]

Yowza, Mpuf and I did a raid with Kasheira, Arglefarger (?) and other Red Knights into UBRS last night.

Everything went really well - Yowza died (per usual).

We did normal loot rules....i understand this isn't MC, but need, set...etc. worked.

If you do some sort of DKP - it would suck for most people, it is my understanding that the more you raid (e.g. MC) the more dragon kill points you get. The people with the most points get the loot from a master raider.

What is wrong about rolling on loot that one can use?

puf/tower

[Khanzal]

I think what Mens is referring to is common for large guilds to use - a points system to determine loot distro.

There are different ways of doing this but essentially people participating in raids on instances get points for participating. They may then spend these points by claiming need on an item. For example, if you and another hunter are in a raid and a sweet hunter helm drops, you can both call need on it. If you have more points than the other person, you get the item, period. No rolls, etc. But you also "spend" your point to get it. If you both have the same points, then you'd need to roll. The winner has spent their points, but the loser still has theirs. So if by calling need on one item puts you below the other hunter's points, they can get the next item.

I think this is mainly to keep people encouraged to play instances and avoid those with "lucky streaks" from walking away from 5 raids with their total Valor set while the rest of us are still wearing crap.

Like I said, this is my basic understanding. I have yet to see the details of such a system and have some questions about how the points get awarded

[]RK[Mensrea]

Khan has hit the nail on the head- the end game instances will take multiple runs to defeat, and there are also lock out considerations. Unlike Strath of Scholo, you can't just say "we'll run it again tomorrow for you to get that piece." Having some sort of point sysytem for these instances (and only these instances) both encourages frequent participation and rewards those who do particpate regularly.

If it is administered fairly, the system guarantees every player some kind of reward, even if they only can go a raid every once in a while. They will still accumulate points, which they can choose when to spend. It also lets those who do the most within the alliance know that they will be able to reap rewards more quickly.

At some point, it would be great if our groups were so close that we could just deal with loot on a more casual basis, where everyone works to improve everyone else. The reality is that we need to have a way of loot distribution that can head off what can be potentially nasty disputes before they start. If we ever get to the point where we don't need a system for loot distribution, I'll be the first to toss it aside.

I'm glad to hear ya'll had a good UBRS run last night. Kash and Arglefraster are two of our best. I wish I could have gone, but it was about 10:30 EST before we began putting it together, and I just couldn't stay up that late :) I'm gonna hook up with you guys one of these days...

[Ghost_of_War]

I guess I still don't get it... why not just have loot be divided up among the people who are in the raid? In all of my UBRS, Strat, Scholo, LBRS raids I have just had a system that allowed for 1 need item and 1 set item per person. If they need it they roll on it and if they don't need it they pass. If everyone passes we can have a roll off as to who gets what. If BOE item drops and isn't needed by whoever picks it up, and you want it for a guildmate or something, just negotiate with whoever got it. I don't know if I would like the idea of some kind of point system rewarding certain people with more loot than others. IMO, if someone helps in a raid, they should get an equal chance at a share of the loot.

For example, let's say you have two players...

Buster - 60 Tauren Druid
ThrillKill - 60 Undead Rogue

Buster raids with us regularly, at least once a week. However his guild does not and largely, they do their own thing. On the other hand ThrillKill never raids with us but his guild does almost every day... should Thrillkill get more loot rights than Buster? Probably not.

I would say that no matter how you implement a system like this you're never going to make it fair. If anything, over time it will encourage new people to not go with us because they'll know that they have better chances of getting a fair share of the loot if they go with someone else. Why would you ever go raid in a raid group where you have zero chance of getting items you need? IE: 2 guys of the same class in a group and the other has a lot more points than you do.

$0.02,

Jaral

[Nylock]

I will grant that Puff has a valid point, but I think there is a lot to be said for a Dragon Kill Points system, especially when you are dealing with huge groups. That being said, i don't know that DKPs are necessary even in instances as big as 20-man, it is something to be discussed.

/initiating economics bs

From a profit motive standpoint, I think DKP are a delicate balancing act. Ideally, you want to do two things (1) encourage new participants and (2) make sure that the people recieving items in large-scale activities will use them for the continued benefit of the participants, to make getting better loot easier for everyone (because you can succeed in reaching your goals and therefore get even more, better loot). In other words, you don't want people new to the group to walk away with nothing but repair costs, but you want to favor people who you know have put in the time and effort to help the group complete raids both in the present and in the past. Essentially, it is assumed that people who have run things like MC multiple times are committed hard-core gamers who will continue to do so, so if they recieve good items it will benefit the raiding group because those individuals can be counted on to be ther and use the tiems to be better raiders. Whether or not this is an accurate perception....I have to admit i lack the capacity to answer.

On the other hand, If you make getting items totally dependant on past activity, then no one new will want to join as they are essentially guaranteed that they will walk away with nothing but repair costs, if you make it completely independent of past assitance to guild/alliance-mates, then there is little motivation to stay in for the long haul to get the item you want...since you have just as much shot as anyone else. Everyone has felt frustrated when they have run an instance multiple times for that one drop for your set, only to see some guy on his first run win the roll. (Of course, this conveniently forgets all the times it happened when you were the lucky newbie).

A raiding group that does not seek new members will eventually die off as people find other things to do. Conversely a group that cannot maintain membership will never be able to realize it's end-game goals as it will constantly be re-training and re-equiping members.

/end economics bs

In addition to Khan's "all or nothing" method (where you use all of your Dragon points or none of them), I have also seen bidding used. (essentially an auction conducted by the Master Looter with DKPs being spent as money). I think all or nothing may be best. That way, when a super-important item drops the guy with the most points can get it, and be rewarded for all the time and effort put in. However, he then drops to the back of the line and has to re-build his stash if he wants another good item that people will call need on. The built in disencentive not to spend DKP on every drop means that items will have a better chance of reaching the point where everyone can roll. We may additionally want to put in restrictions on who can roll for what. For example, only people who can equip the item can roll on it (hopefully avoiding the endless, it's a warrior weapon, no it's a shammy weapon, no it's a rogue weapon debates), only mana users roll on mana regen or +spell items, only healers roll on +heal items (we will have to discuss items that are +heal and +spell damage), and only roll on armor that is "best" for your class so warriors don't roll on cloth or mail items. If this means that druids occasionally win sweet rogue armor or that a shammy ends up with a super-slow super high damage axe that you warrior was lusting for.......so be it. If it meant that much to you you should have saved/spent your DKPs and no system is perfect.

In addition, we may want to consider a rule where anyone who calls "need" on a BOE item must equip it immediately, but the spending of you DKP may mean that you should be entitled to use it however you want (including trading or selling it right then and there). I am torn about this, but I keep leaning towards once you have spent your DKP the item is your to do with as you wish.

Two issues still to be addressed......(1) do we still have the limitations on who can roll for unclaimed items if there is a disenchanter present? and (2) what about BOP recipies that the guild(s) would benefit from making sure only certain characters receive (i.e. a sweet armorsmith recipe for Nylock, a great enchanting recipie for Bysanche) and (3) who tracks the spending/recieving of the DKPs. Regardless, we should probably focus on the matrix and mechanics for DKPs right now.

Being excessively verbose,

Nylock

P.S. - ]RK[Mensrea.. are you an attorney by any chance, you seem like a guy with a guilty concscience ;-).

P.P.S. - For those of you who don't know, i put in an additional posting in my "Stolen Guide to TB" thread with a bunch of spoilers for new items coming in the 1.7 patch, check out the new alchemy recipies.

P.P.P.S. - I will shut up now

[Juriel]

All makes sense now, While i was in AV i got a PW:shield and a /tell saying "A Friendly hello from the Red Knights!".

[Khanzal]

In addition to Khan's "all or nothing" method (where you use all of your Dragon points or none of them) ....

The system I mentioned was more of an abstraction than anything. Points would accumulate for each raid but how many? 1 point for participating per raid? 2 points? Also, how are the points spent? 1/2 point at a time (one point per need / set?), 2 points for a blue BOP, one for a green BOE? The other way around? If I type the lyrics to "Shaft" in the chat window during battles, is everyone else in the raid awarded extra points for putting up with me or are they merely consigned to spamming '/bonk' or '/slap' at me till I shut up? :)

I would like more info on what Mens has in mind, at any rate, before I make any judgment calls. (Especially about the "Shaft" thing because that would be so cool).

:lol:

[Jokebook]

Well I can't speak for anyone else, however, I am keyed and ready to go, for any instance. Feel free to message me in game and I look forward to raiding soon!


Abicus (60 warr)
RK

[Nylock]

[QUOTE=Khanzal]If I type the lyrics to "Shaft" in the chat window during battles, is everyone else in the raid awarded extra points for putting up with me or are they merely consigned to spamming '/bonk' or '/slap' at me till I shut up? :)
QUOTE]


Shut yo mouth.

,
Nylock

(Just talkin' 'bout Shaft)

[Khanzal]

I guess I still don't get it... why not just have loot be divided up among the people who are in the raid? In all of my UBRS, Strat, Scholo, LBRS raids I have just had a system that allowed for 1 need item and 1 set item per person. If they need it they roll on it and if they don't need it they pass. If everyone passes we can have a roll off as to who gets what. If BOE item drops and isn't needed by whoever picks it up, and you want it for a guildmate or something, just negotiate with whoever got it. I don't know if I would like the idea of some kind of point system rewarding certain people with more loot than others. IMO, if someone helps in a raid, they should get an equal chance at a share of the loot.

For example, let's say you have two players...

Buster - 60 Tauren Druid
ThrillKill - 60 Undead Rogue

Buster raids with us regularly, at least once a week. However his guild does not and largely, they do their own thing. On the other hand ThrillKill never raids with us but his guild does almost every day... should Thrillkill get more loot rights than Buster? Probably not.

I would say that no matter how you implement a system like this you're never going to make it fair. If anything, over time it will encourage new people to not go with us because they'll know that they have better chances of getting a fair share of the loot if they go with someone else. Why would you ever go raid in a raid group where you have zero chance of getting items you need? IE: 2 guys of the same class in a group and the other has a lot more points than you do.

$0.02,

Jaral


I think we would be declairing certain raids "Alliance Raids" and participation in THOSE raids would count towards the points. Raids you do in PUGs or solely amoungst an individual guild would not count towards the points. At some point we will have to define what an "official Alliance raid" consists of. One officer from each guild and as many members from each as possible? An even number of members from each guild regardless of their status in each? If a random bunch of Red Knights and a random bunch of SOH members go on a raid together does it count? Can they just decide that they are an official raid all by themselves? Just some things to think about in formulating our approach.

A points award for new raiding members could also be given. Maybe grant new members the average points of all the current members minus some modifier so they will still be "behind" the average of the ones who have been participating all along, but not by an insurmountable amount. So if the average player has ten points and each item claimed on "need" is worth one point, grant new members 8 points. Just an example, not sure if those numbers would be fair or not - the AVERAGE may be ten, but some long-time members could have 15 and others 5, in which case some new members would be ahead, others behind. So if they come in with 8 points awarded and the nearest competitor is a long-time member that has only 5, will the new member keep coming back after they have spent their points? (Note: I do not believe the long-time member would feel "burned" by the system by having a new member come in ahead in points: the long-time member had to spend their points to get them that low, so they got some decent stuff out the system already.)

I think people would still join the "Alliance" raid groups in spite of being new if there were some type of points award. Also, the system works for large repeated raids on instances. Drops in instances are defined by percentages. There is a small percentage chance that any given item will drop in any instance. In other words: we will be raiding instances many, many, many times each. Also, regardless of the possible points for wanting something, someone also have to be willing to spend their points to get something.

Scenario:

Hunter 1 - Longtime member, has 50 points, has full beaststalker gear
Hunter 2 - Longtime member, has 40 points, opted for another set of armor (one of the ones in the new patch), not willing to spend points on beaststalker set.
Hunter 3 - New member, 20 points, has crap armor and will take whatever they can get.

In this scenario, if the beaststalker chest drops, hunter 3 is more likely to get it. One hunter doesn't want it and the other already has it. So even though longtime members may have more points, they also have more gear. Mens also mentioned specific instances in which the points system would apply (MC, Oxy ...) so it's not like we'd be using it all the time.

[Mayhemon]

Hey Juriel, that was me :) I had to let Yowza die on the general, sorry about that. I was starting to loose Raynur who was the tank on the general and didn't have shield wall up. But then again, the healer in your own group shoulda got ya :) Anyway, it was a great run. We had one death between the beginning and the general... only one death (mpuf, again, not in my group! hahaha). At the general we lost between 6-8. Any run without wipes is a good run in my book. Oh, and if you thought your eyes were deceiving you, they weren't, Raynur did in fact tank the general with a Mining Pick. It's a long story that I'd love to tell another day about why he does this with the general, but it's gotten to be such a joke that we are going to enchant is Mining Pick with beastslaying.

As far as loot rules, anytime a stranger gets into our group we immediately go to 1 set, 1 need, set rules enforced. When our group doesn't have strangers, we just do a casual need/greed. I guess the question is whether or not we should start casual or work into it over time? I really don't like DKP, but understand it's usefullness and don't mind using one. DKP does add a protection against lucky streaks, but it also feeds the rich and starves the poor.

I think you may find most of the Red Knights are used to a need/greed system from our days in beta and on Shattered Hand. Most of us (although we have a few greedy bastards) just start passing for the rest of the instance after we win something big. First of all, we know that nobody likes wasting 2 hours (or more) in an instance to win nothing but a repair bill. So distribution of loot among the group keeps players happy. As such, once a win of a set or nice blue/purple item happens, you'll find most of us passing on the rest. Second, we know we'll be back again. Our membership is mostly made up of older folks, with our average age above 21. We know how to postpone our gratifications. We know we will return for another shot.

Anyway, I'm glad you guys had a good time at UBRS, we did too. We got Raynur his shield, Yowza got a set piece, and I think someone else got a set piece as well. Delda, 57 priest, got a nice upgrade on his pants. I, as usuall, got a repair bill, but I got another shot at my mantle and robe which is why I went. Also, I believe 5 Large Brilliant Shards were passed out. Not a bad run for us all.

I'd like to coordinate more groups or events if that's possible. Another guild that we group with often is "The Furi". I'd like to see the three of us get involved to run multiple groups through Zul'Gurub when it comes out. Perhaps we can begin to prepare for MC and above. While many of us are ready for MC, gear and attunement, I'm not sure if we're "ready" for MC as a group. Not exactly a place designed for pick-up groups :) With that said, if we can get 40 people together, I have no problems going in there and wiping on Lucifron for an hour or so (of course I have optimistic intentions that we would kill Luci on first shot!).

Ack, forgot. Would you mind me contacting you in game Khan? I have an idea about an easier way to communicate, but don't want to post it on a widely public medium.

[Khanzal]

Ack, forgot. Would you mind me contacting you in game Khan? I have an idea about an easier way to communicate, but don't want to post it on a widely public medium.

Feel free! Same goes for other Red Knight folks too! I've been meaning to start chatting with you guys but have tended to get distracted for one reason or another.

I would love to set up an instance run for the different groups some time in the next couple days. Maybe, UBRS General run? I know someone with the key, but we'd need a back-up person in case she can't make it. Maybe Friday night, 8pm EST? (I'm pretty sure that's 9pm server time).

[Bysanche]

cool idea. the Red Knights are very cool, i have interacted with a couple (I know Kharma for sure)...so give me a whisp RK's if you need more for an instance =), looking forward to interaction. BTW, I'm also a 300 enchanter.

[Ghost_of_War]

I've killed the General 23 times now... and no Beaststalker Tunic. The God's must hate me.

:ink:

[]RK[Mensrea]

UBRS at 8 pm EST sounds great to me. I'll work it on our end to try and get a good turnout ;)

[patrickgurdgiel]

I've killed the General 23 times now... and no Beaststalker Tunic. The God's must hate me.

:ink:

Hey Jaral - at least it showed up on the 24th. Sorry you didn't get it. On the plus side if the roughly 7-8% drop rate on Thott is correct, you're proabably due for another drop fairly soon.

Pat

[Khanzal]

Mensrea and I were talking last night and managed to set up a shared chat channel for the Red Knights and Soveriegns of Honor.

I named the new channel "SOHRK." When you log in, just type /join SOHRK and you will be added to the channel. With a shared channel we can better talk about upcoming raids and who is doing what. Make sure you note which number is assigned to the channel in your User Interface! You will need to type /<number of channel> to use the new channel.

I noticed that as people logged off last night, they were automatically removed from the channel. You can rejoin by simply typing the /join SOHRK statement into the chat box (if the norm is to remove me from the channel, I will probably macro the connect command). Mens seemed to think there was a way to keep ones association with the channel past the logoff ... still looking into this. Also, patches will likely remove the new channel even if it is saved. Just use the /join command above - you will join if the channel exists or the channel will be created if it doesn't.

[]RK[Mensrea]

I think that was Mayhem you were working with last night :)

There is a way that your connection to the channel will remain when you log in again; the old Horde Raiding Society channel used to be that way.

Speaking of getting together, there is some interest amongst our folks for a DM run tonite; anyone who is interested just give a shout out!

[Khanzal]

lol ... umm ... oops :)

Sorry Mayhem. Not good at remembering names ... just ask our guild leader Enale, or Nylock, the Orc Hunter... er wait. :lol:

(Jaral's the leader and both he and Bysanche are the Orc hunters, Nylock is an undead warrior and Enale is someone I just like to pester :)).

I don't think I can make it (gotta help some guildies wrap up some stuff in BRD). Feel free to send a tell tho and I can relay the info and see if anyone is interested in SOH when you go.

[]RK[Mensrea]

Will do! And if ya need to fill any slots for a BRD run, just let us know as well.

[Mayhemon]

OOooo BRD. I still need that blood from the cauffers for my Rumination book (150 mana to helm or legs).

Sometimes /join ing a channel will "stick", meaning you'll rejoin it when you log back in. Sometimes it doesn't :( When everyone leaves the channel, the server will erase it to save space and bandwidth. Once one person joins it (or logs on), the channel will be automatically recreated. There is a way to password protect these channels as well, if the need ever arises. No patch today :( Oh well, see you all in game!

[Ghost_of_War]

I named the new channel "SOHRK." When you log in, just type /join SOHRK and you will be added to the channel. With a shared channel we can better talk about upcoming raids and who is doing what. Make sure you note which number is assigned to the channel in your User Interface! You will need to type /<number of channel> to use the new channel.

I created a channel in January that is currently unused and may suit our purposes for what we need. I think you guys will like the name too.

/join HordeUnited :rockon:

This was created with the allaince between SoH and LOST PATROL. It's not really in use anymore... only a couple of us even join it these day. Maybe we could use that one?

[Bysanche]

Lets set up a time for a BRD raid. I need to go to the bar and buy a few enchanting recipes..

[]RK[Eightball]

Hello all, Im a newly 60 warrior and I just wanted to drop in and say hi. I have run UBRS and Strath with a few of you recently and had a great time. Enale was there on both occasions and she is a great person to have in a group. Would deffinatly be up for doing BRD soon, possibly this up comming weekend? I am usually up for pick-up runs if you need another tank. I really feel that we can help each other through the high end content, and I look forward to grouping with your guild regulary.

[Enale]

RK[Eightball']Hello all, Im a newly 60 warrior and I just wanted to drop in and say hi. I have run UBRS and Strath with a few of you recently and had a great time. Enale was there on both occasions and she is a great person to have in a group. Would deffinatly be up for doing BRD soon, possibly this up comming weekend? I am usually up for pick-up runs if you need another tank. I really feel that we can help each other through the high end content, and I look forward to grouping with your guild regulary.


/blush
Wow you're now my favorite tauren warrior since Khanzal is so mean to me on these boards... ;) <mutter stupid xmas cow mutter>

Grats on making 60 & welcome to the "I can park him in this tree here since I don't care about rest state..."

And the runs were lots of fun - looking forward to many more... always feel free to buzz me regarding raids... i'm on most nights. If you don't see Enale as on then check for my roguish alternate Vatta who's 58 & reaching for that sleeping in trees state ;)

:eyes: Enale

[Khanzal]

/blush
Wow you're now my favorite tauren warrior since Khanzal is so mean to me on these boards... ;) <mutter stupid xmas cow mutter>


/gasp

:eyes:

[Khanzal]

I created a channel in January that is currently unused and may suit our purposes for what we need. I think you guys will like the name too.

/join HordeUnited :rockon:

This was created with the allaince between SoH and LOST PATROL. It's not really in use anymore... only a couple of us even join it these day. Maybe we could use that one?

Wow, great name! We already have the SOHRK channel up but I'm not averse to switching. One concern: "SOHRK" is obscure enough that, unless you're one of the people that know it, you'd be unlikely to stumble on it (not that we're exchanging encrypted messages or anything). Other than that, I'm game.

[Mayhemon]

Let me know if we're going to switch so I get the word out to the masses (heh, I guess "masses" isn't exactly fitting). I'll run BRD anytime :) I really would like to get my hands on the Hammer of Grace since I picked up the Cloud Stone out of DM.

[Nylock]

Please note that I changed the Guild Message o' the day to encourage people to log on to the "sohrk" chat cahnnel. If any officers read this and have a chance to, we should change the message to "HordeUnited".

P.S. - Hmmm.... Horde United, sounds like an EPL team. Does this mean we have to get drunk and wear scarves before we can enter Battlegrounds? Good thing I can get that stamina boosting beer from Stomper Kreeg now. ;-)


,

Nylock

Undead Warrior/Manchester United backer

[]RK[Mensrea]

Grats on making 60 & welcome to the "I can park him in this tree here since I don't care about rest state..."

You know, I had no idea that this would be so liberating. It is so much easier to just log off right in the middle of a hot area. It actually makes jumping on for ten or fifteen minutes just to farm some loot or cash a viable option. I love it.

[Khanzal]

Lets set up a time for a BRD raid. I need to go to the bar and buy a few enchanting recipes..

Based on By's and a couple other responses, it seems a number of us have BRD quests or would just like to go to get recipies etc.

Both Blunthorn and Necriptus have quests in BRD from SOH (that I know of).

Perhaps those with the quests should touch base in game to get together in 5-man groups?

Those of us just trying to get to the bar / Thorium Brotherhood guy, anvil or forge, or collect resources, maybe we could form a raid sometime so we can hack our way to the places we want to go.

Another thought: sometime I think we should take a stab at Molten Core. Not necessarily with a mind to complete anything. Just go, get some loot, see what's in there, etc. Maybe we could do that, mess around until we get tired of it, stone back to a major city to repair / sell and then go do something else as a raid (like UBRS or Scholo ...). Or if we have really low self-esteem after getting owned in MC we could do Wailing Caverns. :)

"I'M SO l33t!! I TOTALLY WTFPWND YOU, DEVIATE RAPTOR!! LOL!!!111ONEONEONE"

:lol:

[Mayhemon]

Need about 33-35 people to make a serious attempt on Luci. If we have two well-geared Warriors, we may just walk out of there with our heads up after a good run on Luci.

I wouldn't mind wasting some hours and gold on a welcome to MC death-fest. Labor Day (US) is coming up this weekend, not sure if that would help or hurt planning to get everyone on at the same time. Any idea on time/day? Sundays I know will knock 3 of us from availability and Saturday afternoon will knock a few out as well, which varies from week to week. We are mostly east coast, with a few west coasters in the mix, and some east coasters that think they are in the west coast timezone :)

[]RK[Mensrea]

Labor Day might be an interesting alternative... I'd be game for a shot at MC.

And I have so many quests in BRD to do- Kill on Sight, Commander Gorshak, Last Element, Rise of the Machines to name a few. I'm always game for a run on it.

[Ghost_of_War]

I vote we use the HordeUnited channel for our little coalition. It would be a shame to have a channel out there with such a cool name and not getting any use.

:)

I wouldn't mind wasting some hours and gold on a welcome to MC death-fest. Labor Day (US) is coming up this weekend, not sure if that would help or hurt planning to get everyone on at the same time. Any idea on time/day? Sundays I know will knock 3 of us from availability and Saturday afternoon will knock a few out as well, which varies from week to week. We are mostly east coast, with a few west coasters in the mix, and some east coasters that think they are in the west coast timezone :)

I will be out of town. My vote is for another weekend. :beer:

[Khanzal]

I think there's probably a lot of people that have family goings-on this weekend or vacations or something else. May be a bit rough to make an MC incursion raid (35 +/- people).

We can take a shot next weekend though. We should plan a follow up event too (I'm not saying we'll get totally crushed, but MC seems to involve a lot of prep work which I know I and others don't have - need more fire resist gear, etc). The event could be:

1) Show up in Kargath
2) Try MC
3) If MC doesn't go well at all, do UBRS

Alternately, we could set our hearthstones to Kargath. That way we could stone out quick, repair up and then take the bird elsewhere (like heading to UC to run to Scholo or Strath).

[]RK[Mensrea]

Heh, if you are in North or South Carolina (like me) you aren't going anywhere for Labor Day cause there is no freaking gas... :bash:

But a good point about the holiday weekend. I'd be game for targetting the 10th or 11th. I would think that Saturday night might be best? If we get the word out a week ahead, people could make some plans.

Good plan on the Kargath hearthstone. Gives us good flexibility.

[patrickgurdgiel]

I think there's probably a lot of people that have family goings-on this weekend or vacations or something else. May be a bit rough to make an MC incursion raid (35 +/- people).

We can take a shot next weekend though. We should plan a follow up event too (I'm not saying we'll get totally crushed, but MC seems to involve a lot of prep work which I know I and others don't have - need more fire resist gear, etc). The event could be:

1) Show up in Kargath
2) Try MC
3) If MC doesn't go well at all, do UBRS

Alternately, we could set our hearthstones to Kargath. That way we could stone out quick, repair up and then take the bird elsewhere (like heading to UC to run to Scholo or Strath).

As Enale, Khan, and Nylock know - I'm a big proponent of this idea. I'd like to start making stabs into MC even if there are only 10-15 of us. Sure we won't get far, but I know myself and many others are looking for rare components such as firey or lava cores. Even if we just kill the first 5-10 guys before going into UBRS, we may see some useful drops.

Plus getting a better feel for how tough it is and how hard things hit isn't a bad thing either.

Pat

[Ghost_of_War]

RK[Mensrea']Heh, if you are in North or South Carolina (like me) you aren't going anywhere for Labor Day cause there is no freaking gas... :bash:

But a good point about the holiday weekend. I'd be game for targetting the 10th or 11th. I would think that Saturday night might be best? If we get the word out a week ahead, people could make some plans.

Good plan on the Kargath hearthstone. Gives us good flexibility.

Keep on the lookout for Fire Resist rings and gear on the AH. Also, are there any fire resist potions or other items people can make that will help us along? Oh, and for those who don't have it... get +5 All Resistance to your cloak. It's a must have enchant IMO.

[Khanzal]

I created a separate thread for a Molten Core raid. I proposed Saturday, Sept 10th at 7pm server time for the raid time. I'll see what the responses are so I can adjust the dates and times accordingly.

[]RK[Mensrea]

Keep on the lookout for Fire Resist rings and gear on the AH. Also, are there any fire resist potions or other items people can make that will help us along?

I can make these, but the flame sac reagent is hard to come by. We can get the other stuff by the truckload, but if ya come across any flame sacs, horde em!

http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=7619


Edit: And as Mayhem offered, if you send me the ingredients, I will turn em around to ya free of charge.

[Mayhemon]

I can make these

http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=5390

The ingredients are easier to come by. I dropped herbalism, but kept alchemy. If anyone sends me the materials via mail I will send back the potion, no charge.

[Ghost_of_War]

RK[Mensrea']I can make these, but the flame sac reagent is hard to come by. We can get the other stuff by the truckload, but if ya come across any flame sacs, horde em!

http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=7619

Sweet! I shall provide you with a pile of Flame Sacs in no time. :beer:

[Jokebook]

Does this mean we have to get drunk and wear scarves before we can enter ?


Yes



I, as well, will be spending a majority of my time at my residence this weekend. Therefore, being availible at any given juncture this weekend is probable. The event in question would be preffered to be arrived upon by previous notice, however, as long as domination is involved, and a warrior is needed, the services that this one can provide should be accounted for.


Abicus

[]RK[Mensrea]

Oh my... Like prepositional phrases much? :eyes:

[Jokebook]

Sometimes the act of being long winded, causes me to be entertained :P



Abicus

[]RK[Mensrea]

Hey, I'm a lawyer; I can definitely relate to that ;)

[stapuf]

Would it be a good idea to merge the two guilds?

Or is this too radical?

[Khanzal]

Right now we're just trying to establish lines of communication between the small guilds on the Horde side so we can do what the larger guilds can do. I'm not saying that an SOH/RK merger will never happen, just that no one's been considering it as an option at this time.

From what I've gathered, historically, when the Red Knights have worked to join together smaller guilds on their old server, some of the larger ones in the alliance tried to pressure the smaller ones into merging with them. That's something we're trying to avoid. Each guild in our alliance needs to be able to maintain its autonomy.

That being said, I'm glad we're working so well together with our friends in RK and the Furi. Should make us fairly competative to take down some of the tougher stuff to come. I'm hoping the LOST PATROL and some of the other small guilds with similar players can also join in on the fun.

[stapuf]

Every instance i have done with them has gone very well.

Rhaz and Kasheira are awesome rogues.

We blew through a Baron run tonight. :)

[]RK[Mensrea]

Yeah, a big problem with the alliances we've been in the past is that one guild seems to emerge as dominant and tries to absorb the smaller guilds- or more appropriately, the members of the smaller guilds who they deem to be valueable.

I'm just one officer in the guild, but speaking for myself, we're not looking for a merge. We've always been a smaller guild. I like actually knowing the people who wear the ]RK[ tag. Our players have been the target of these "take over" attempts, and I like the fact that the vast majority of them have been failures, because the people we have in guild like being there and choose to stay.

We like our independence, and we respect those folks who want to keep theirs. I think it is awesome that our guilds have enough in common that we can work together closely, trust each other, yet still maintain that identity that each wants. They way things have been going so far, I think things can only get better!

[missuspuf]

so far, bull and i have grouped up with the red knights on a half-dozen or so instances. it has been great for us latenightplayingwestcoasterswithkidswhoscrew upourgamingschedulewhatgamingschedule peeps as we are able to fairly easily fill out a raid party with mostly red knights and SoH peeps.

one thing we can work on (which i am def. not the person with the knowledge or know-how) is some streamlined TS channel that everyone knows is a SoH/RN channel or vent (which i have no experience with.) having a game-plan before our 7 pm Saturday night MC excursion would be beneficial.

yowza - get a mic! w00t!

mpuf