Complete And Total Bs

[Armerius]

I cannot BELIEVE i just got kicked!

picture this:

Map: Battle of '73 Easting

I am in the scud launcher in the Opposition base, I get a PERFECT spotlight on the enemy base interior from a scout and start bombarding across the map... i hit 4 times and get ejected from the game!!!!

WTF PEOPLE?!?!?!!? admins, that was complete BS... i wasn't camping, i wasn't breaking the rules... i had a 90 second spot to bombard from... soo, i say it's bull****.

not cool.

[SoBeiT]

Sorry Arm..you were hitting the main uncappable spawn base..I heard.

The person doing your spotting should have told you what base you were hitting.

[stapuf]

You can't Scud the Coalition base?

I thought you had team killed...and got auto-matically kicked....

You went from Gold to Goat in 2 minutes!!! :bow:

[Salyavin]

I warned the player who did it first but didn't kick him because he actually heeded the warning and stopped. I warned you and then kicked you when you ignored it. I warned and then kicked the player who did it after you. In each case, the warning had the player's name and "don't camp the enemy base or you will be kicked" so it should have been clear. In each case it was a kick, not a ban, so the player can join the server again.

Scudding the Coalition base on 73 Eastings is base camping. It doesn't help take or defend capturable flags. All it does is kill newly respawning players who don't have a chance to defend themselves. I'm enforcing the no-basecamping rule because I agree with it 100%; it makes the games move faster and everyone gets to play instead of staring at the respawn screen every few seconds.

That said, I hated kicking you because you're a nice guy/gal and a good player. I hope you'll come back and kill me a few times for revenge if you want to (from the opposite team, of course :)).

Cheers,
Salyavin

[Creeper]

Nothing quite like cursing the admins in caps to get your point across...

[Inkswitch]

See?

[stapuf]

...In each case it was a kick, not a ban, so the player can join the server again.

Scudding the Coalition base on 73 Eastings is base camping. It doesn't help take or defend capturable flags. All it does is kill newly respawning players who don't have a chance to defend themselves. I'm enforcing the no-basecamping rule because I agree with it 100%; it makes the games move faster and everyone gets to play instead of staring at the respawn screen every few seconds. ...


I agree with that. So, I change my position on my previous post. I should be in New Hampshire today...

[|Robot|Bender]

WAIT A MINUTE..

You guys just reversed your previous post.
Before you said on this server that the rules were you can't SPAWN camp a base if you can see it. SCUD attacks on a base in NOT spawn camping. Its a totally legit move on every sever i have ever played on. Sitting in the middle of a base with a Tank is illegal, artillery use is not. THats why it was included in the game.

Read up at the www.desertcombat.com (http://www.desertcombat.com) forums and you will see that what he did was 100% legal on all dev servers and most every other server out there...

What gives? I don't see a rule breaking here, adn i played last night for 5 maps and dealt with all kinds of peeps doing bombing runs, heli attacks, tank grabs in my main base.....but a SCUD attack gets kicked?

Cmon guys, thats bs. You said that was allowed after I made a big deal of getting kicked....go back and read your post.

Decide how you want to run your server, but i would have done the same thing...and if I had been kicked for that after i was told it was ok, i would never come back here again.....

:(

[SoBeiT]

Bender, you are saying it is OK to sit in your base, that the other team has been warned to stay out of under threat of being kicked and use the scud to hit the other spawn base?

That makes no sense to me.



I am wondering if the person spotting for Arm told him what base he was shooting into?

Arm has always been a good player here.

[|Robot|Bender]

Look. I was kicked for doing this, and i was just as confused. That spurned a debate here on what is "Spawn Camping" and what is not.

See, the Devs at BF and DC both had agreed on this issue.

Spawn Camping is when you are in visual view of the other base. Such as in a tank or chopper or plane and you just sit there and kill all spawning players.

HOWEVER:

Artillery cannot be considered spawn camping because they are DESIGNED to hit anywhere on the map. This was thier decision and i remember the same decision was made here. I am just as guilty then beacause i have spotted / had arty spotted for me on main base ONLY WHEN ALL FLAGS ARE TAKEN (thats my extra rule), but in no way would this be spawn camping.

Let me put it this way. You have a map with 2 flags. Both are taken. What is the point of artillery then? Even if both aren't taken, both flags will be heavy with troops from both sides. The decision was made in the Desert Combat forums that the arty is useless unless it can be used. And that means being spotted by a scout (who can be killed and thusly the spot is lost) and then fired on by artillery.

Now, remember the SCUD is not a constant barrage, and if you team is doing anything like a team, you will be able to hustle out and quiet the offender, even if you have to attack the enemy bse. Thats part of the game. HOWEVER, sitting on a hill overlooking the base with the Rocket Truck is SPAWN CAMPING. That is not spotted by a scout, that is blatelnty driving up over the base and bombing the crap out of it.

Running into a base with a tank, grabbing a jeep and leaving is not Spawn Camping.
Flying a plane into a base and doing a fly over and dropping bombs is not Spawn Camping.
Sitting in a base with a tank shooting anything that moves...SPAWN CAMPING...

See the difference? One is a tactical move that is used in allmost all shooters, the other is just plain lazy.

Sitting on a hill overlooking the base with the .50 and sniping peeps, THATS SPAWN CAMPING.
Flying over a base with a chopper and taking out the planes then leaving...thats NOT spawn camping...

Again i say, you guys have to come up with a rule and stick to it.

Thats all i'm saying....

[Inkswitch]

Personally, I think the "hands-off" the main base rule is pretty *****ish. I think it's much more satisfying to get out of a camped base and take flags. I feel more fullfilled that way.

Artillery and SCUDs are made for that kind of use. You pretty much make those weapons useless if you can't attack the main base.

And, as I said before, it is gonna be tough enforcing that rule. Most, if not all, servers use the "all flags first" rule and it seems to hold up pretty well.

[|Robot|Bender]

AGREED #1...wow, me and Ink actually agree on something!!!!

[Inkswitch]

AGREED #1...wow, me and Ink actually agree on something!!!!

Not true.

We both like trailor trash women, too. :naughty:

[ElectricHead]

Using Artillery on any base is not "base camping". That is exactly what Artillery does. There should be no time that someone should be kicked because they are using a Artillery on a base or area of the map.

The only exceptions would be if the person was teamkilling with it (artillery gunners, STOP firing when your team is at or near your target; check your map) or if a player somehow got an Artillery piece onto a repair pad in the main base and was doing it there.

Kicking someone for firing an Artillery piece on a base or target is like kicking someone for using a plane to fly.

[|Robot|Bender]

I have a new appreciation for the Ink. I no longer hate you.

My long lost brother :)

[Inkswitch]

Yup.

Mmmmmmmmmmm Crooked teeth and malnutrition.

Trailor chicks know how to make Mac & Cheese the right way!

[SFT]

Personally, I think the "hands-off" the main base rule is pretty *****ish. I think it's much more satisfying to get out of a camped base and take flags. I feel more fullfilled that way.

Artillery and SCUDs are made for that kind of use. You pretty much make those weapons useless if you can't attack the main base.

And, as I said before, it is gonna be tough enforcing that rule. Most, if not all, servers use the "all flags first" rule and it seems to hold up pretty well.

Everybody I saw camping the mainbases last night did so without having control of all the flags. This is how the lameness works - before one team has control, they come over and spawncamp or even better, they switch teams TK and destroy armor. The team getting spawnkilled/TKed gets setback, shortly afterward loses all flags due to lack of reinforcements (usually reinforcements with armor and then suddenly all the spawnkilling is justified. What a difference a few seconds make.

I play on a lot of other servers and the play is bad, cheap, candya$$ed and mostly a downright waste of time. Are you saying the play is crap on all the other servers, so we should lower our standards here? Peeps who like an upfront game will find this server and come back (last night a guy was asking how to add GA to his favorites). There are plenty of sites out there that let you spawnkill all you want. Let the spawnkillers go to those servers. Why bend over backwards trying to please a bunch of campers?

As far as the scud goes, I played on a server two weeks ago that cycled 73 Easting over and over and each time it started the red team ran full speed to the blue base and called in a strike for the scud. Then for the rest of the game scud after scud came in and the tanks surrounded the bluebase and cut down any infantry that tried to leave. Fun game, huh?

Personally, I think sitting in a scud launcher the whole game is pretty boring. And about that particular game, I wished somebody would have dropped some scuds on the middle base. I was trying like hell to take that base and got very little help. We lost that game due to a complete lack of teamwork.

[Inkswitch]

I think you should have all the takable flags before bombarding the main base.

Play on other servers is ****ty because there are usually no admins to kick the smacktards.

I've won plenty of games where my main base was being hammered for a while.

Look, I prefer the "all flags rule". But, I have been admin'ing on what we all agreed on. No base camping. I'll go along with whatever the group decides. I DO think that this is gonna be a ongoing debate because most of the community takes it for granted that they can camp the main base if they have all the flags. Amerius and Bender are examples. Both are excellent players who were just playing naturally. There are gonna be other peeps with this problem, so we just need to be aware that it will be an issue.

[SoBeiT]

As I have not played many on line games explain this to me please: Why is that one flag not cappable?

What was the point of it?

[SFT]

As I have not played many on line games explain this to me please: Why is that one flag not cappable?

What was the point of it?

To keep the game going more than 2 or 3 minutes. The uncappable bases usually house the armor and the aircraft. It also concentrates the battles in the center where they should be.

Look at Tobruk - take the rear blue base with all the armor and the game is over a short time later. Wake island takes longer because the armor is spread out more and, even if you take the red airstrip, red still has a chance to comeback (tanks at end bases. Battle of the Bulge is usually over if blue loses main base with armor.

I think DC should offer multiple versions of these maps, like Tobruk or bulge with an untakable blue main base. The games might be a little more interesting. Or with all takable bases like Inshallah valley.

[StealthDP]

First off, if you are warned by an admin to stop a certain behavior, you cannot get all bent because you were kicked for ignoring them. They are here to enforce the rules, and I trust all of them to use common sense when players are in that "grey area" of the rules. The base camping rule can very easily be abused... we try to give a bit, but it always seems that peeps take advantage. Unfortunate.

Armerius, I was not there, but I trust that you were warned before getting kicked. Also, there is a bug with 73 Easting that allows you to sit at the Opp base and aim the scud at a point in the sky to launch into the Coalition main base. We are very sensitive of that bug, and are always watching for it.

Bender, it was never stated that bombing the crap out of the enemies main base was ok, in fact, I stated that it was not. Read the posts after I made my initial comment, and you will see that I specifically clarified that statement.

Armerius, I have played with you before, and you seemed like a good team player. I hope that you will continue to enjoy the server that we provide. If you decide that this is a big enough deal to drive you to avoid our server, well, that is your choice. Just know that we are trying to maintain a fun server for all. Also, this post is general in nature, and not directed primarily at you.

These rules are designed to make the game a more enjoyable experience for everyone. I, personally, think it is BS to deliberately bomb the crap out of a main spawn point that is not cappable. The only reason to do this is to spawn kill. Play the f***ing game, do not exploit the inherent flaws found in MP games. If you get some kind of kick out of expoiting a spawn point, go do it somewhere else. Not trying to be a dick, just trying to make it a fun environment. If it is so important to you to be able to spawn kill that you will avoid playing here because we do not allow it, that is fine. You will save our admins some grief.

I would rather shut the server down than to allow peeps to completely ruin the game for others.

[SoBeiT]

Thanks for the answer Shirl.

rest was edited my ME.

[|Robot|Bender]

OR you could just use DC only maps..............BF maps do not make a good DC game imho.

There are plenty of badass new DC maps you guys haven't even seen that are amazing in gameplay.

And momma taught me : if you don't have all the flags, get your black ass away from the main base...

Momma didn't raise no foo!

And stealth, i'm sorry but i just read up and i read the posts as the following.

"Its ok to attack main base REMOTELY but not camp next to or in it." If i'm reading it wrong, please just post the rules. This debate has always been solved by the rule : Own the flags, own the map. If you want to run it differently, no sweat off mah balls, just make sure the rules are very clear.

[stapuf]

I would say that everyone agrees that players should listen to the admin that is 'in-game'...or suffer the consequences.

If the SCUD in Easting, or the entire Tobruck map were fair in DC, then ppl wouldn't switch to Red so quickly. (team switching should be a kick/ban offense)

I have played on other servers, and if GA weren't here - I'd move to a different game. I literally got 15+ kills just on El Alamein by defending the radar tower above the blue base from spawn camping pond scum, and killing plane stealers (the game was over when I joined, and no one on our team seemed interested in the flags)>

[StealthDP]

Here is what I said:

I did not intend to imply that launching a barrage of artillery on the uncappable base was OK. Knowing where the last spawn point is gives a team a definite advantage. You know where the enemy is gonna be coming from, and you should know most of the routes they are gonna take. When I said holding from a distance, I did not mean launching a barrage from a distance. What is the fun in that?

There are many opinions on this, and many may think it is fun to blow the crap out of the last base, racking up kills. For me, the fun is in the battle, not the massacre, regardless of which team I am on.

[|Robot|Bender]

but.....uh......what is the verdict? That thread is nice, but there is anther thread where the decision was posted (i think Ink was dominant in that thread) that adhered to the general accepted rules of the public :

1) Hold all flags, Main base is fair game
2) Artillery fire is not Spawn Camping


The only reason i'm pushing for definite posted clarification is so this never happens again. I understand 100% that it is your server and even if i do donate, that doesn't give me the right to play by my own rules.

Not a rule nazi, just don't want to piss anyone off with my l33t arty fire...

[StealthDP]

OK, here it is... do not spawn kill in the main base. Whether you do it in a tank from within that base, or with a scud from across the map, it will most likely get you warned, followed by a kick if you do not comply with the admin.

Here is my viewpoint. I get precious few times where I can go in and play (tonite is one of those). I look forward to playing all day. Finally, I fire up to old PC and load up DC. Lo and behold, it is one of those games where the opposite team dominates, and takes all of the bases. I then get to spend the next 15 minutes getting killed instantly as I spawn.

Conversely, when I come in, I am on the dominant team. We get all the bases. I then get to sit for 15 minutes clicking my right mouse button over and over, launching an endless barrage on the enemy base, killing players that I never even see.

Is this fun? Neither scenario is fun for me.... and ruins a game I once really enjoyed. I usually end up just leaving the game, pissed and frustrated, and find something else to do. I personally have recruited several peeps to come over and give DC a try. The majority have left, and may never come back, due to this cheap method of shamelessly racking up points. If you think this is fun, perhaps there should be a mod that just takes all of the weapons away from the opposing team, and you can just kill them mercilessly, racking up mega-points!

In the end, I do not play video games to see how many ways I can expoit the game to enhance my score. I play to blow off some steam and HAVE FUN.

C'mon people... you did good, and capped all the bases. Now, show some real skill, and hold them without spawn killing the opposite team. Forget the scores for a bit, and have some fun.

[-F7]

I think it's unfair.

On one hand, people want the rule 'No camping enemy base unless you have all the flags.'

Well if say, Opposition has all the flags and then SCUDS the coalition base, because of the 'NO CAMPING ENEMY BASE UNLESS YOU HAVE ALL THE FLAGS' rule, the Coalition can't exact revenge on that SCUD parked in the Opposition base. Because it's in the enemy base and Coalition doesn't have all the flags.

IMO, attacking an enemy base when you have all the flags is Spawnkilling...no matter how you do it...and is cheap, boring, and lame.

[|Robot|Bender]

Stealth, message recieved. You got it. You guys are too much fun to play with (read : frag) to piss off, i just wanted to make sure that i and everyone else understood that.

Suggestion : The server message, change it to

"Do not shoot or even look at the enemies uncappable base" :)

I think that would get the point across to those who would otherwise be a bit fuzzy..

[SoBeiT]

Maybe it comes down to sportsmanship in the end.

I love winning, god it feels good. I just don't want my win cheapened in any way.



It's cool you kept at this Bender, now there is no "I didn't know" and the gaming staff are perfectly clear on the rules.

[stapuf]

...racking up mega-points!

In the end, I do not play video games to see how many ways I can expoit the game to enhance my score.

You can rack up your score by letting the other team regroup and take some flags; then take them back.

:p

[Paladin]

that adhered to the general accepted rules of the public :

1) Hold all flags, Main base is fair game
2) Artillery fire is not Spawn Camping
Yes, but the general public doesn't play here and I for one like it that way.

Arm, I'd have kicked your ass off the server too for hitting the uncappable with the SCUD if I'd stayed around for it. I was begging for a no basecamping rule here long before it was adopted. One of the major problems with 73 Easting is how easy it is to bomb the allied base back to the stone age. Before people figured out where in the sky to aim, most of the battles consisted of a group of opposition guys in APC's and dune buggies running as quick as they could to the Allied base and setting up shop as a spotter. Now they don't even need to do that. If the SCUD were a one-shot deal, fine, but it reloads about as fast as the allied armor respawns resulting in the allied base becoming a kill zone. If you fire it in there once, I don't have a problem with that. That get's you your warning. Fire them in their in rapid succession, and I'll turn around and fire up the admin utility on "Ol' Bessy". If you absolutely must SCUD a base, pick one of the capables. But don't stand off where a pinned enemy can't possibly fight back and nuke their uncapable spawn point.

It's also amazing how many people who quote the "we have all the flags rule" don't actually bother keeping track of whether or not they STILL hold them. It's like gaining all the flags at any point is akin to pulling the last poster off the tree and revealing it's now "Elmer Season".

I agree that some of the original Battlefield maps are horribly unbalanced in BF. There are some "Day 2" and "Day 3" variants included in the DC download that change the equipment mix, many removing the aircraft entirely. I don't know why we don't run them unless they are buggy. I would also like to see the map order changed so Gazala isn't first after a crash and so all the original BF maps aren't the first we get to. As for why we aren't running other DC maps, that was in another thread...maybe on the admin forum...in order to keep the server open to as many people as possible, we're only running maps that came with the DC download. If we started running non-standard maps, people who didn't have them would get dropped when the map changes. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it given there's no way for people to know what maps they need without coming to the forums here.

(For those who don't know, Arm is (like me) one of the QB's F7 badgered into playing here to help fill the server :p . I've gamed with him, F7, Tick, Fix (less so), and Jackrabbit (who isn't around on the DC server much) for about 3 years now, and even saw his engagement dinner on Food Network. And I'd have STILL kicked him for SCUDding the allied base).

[SoBeiT]

I still like the idea of a Reg night using all the new maps mentioned here.


We'd have time to d/l them from this server and try them out all together.

[Paladin]

I still like the idea of a Reg night using all the new maps mentioned here.


We'd have time to d/l them from this server and try them out all together.
Personally, I like the idea of a GA map pack. Pick 5 maps or so a month and put them in a pack that can be downloaded from the main page, then advertise it on the server. Those who play often will see it during the "standard" maps, and I think we are finally getting enough regular players (who aren't yet bothering to come here for the forums) to make it work. Change the map pack contents the first of the month to keep it fresh. Plus, it'd give us a reason to have a monthly News announcement posted on the PlanetBattlefield web site.

[|Robot|Bender]

Sob, there are some kickass new maps made for DC only that are amazing.....

:) If anyone wants some suggestion help, let me know. I would be glad to submit a few for review....

It would also keep out losers....imho....

[StealthDP]

We tried a few custom maps, but the server emptied. No map is fun with only three or four peeps.

Regardless, I am up to trying the Map Pack idea... it could work out, if done properly.

I do not understand why game developers do not follow Epics lead with the UT series, and allow in game downloads and http redirects of compressed map files.

Bender, start a thread with some map recommendations. We can look them over, and pick a few for our first map pack... w00t!

OH, and BTW, I am not pissed at anyone... just frustrated that we have to have these debates instead of just having some fun!

[|Robot|Bender]

You got it. And sometimes with so many ideas/personalities, these little debates lock out all possible problems.

Sometimes, someone just has to tell everyone how it is :)

[SFT]

Yes, a few day2, day3 maps would be good. Weren't these maps running on GA just before the FH thing.

[|Robot|Tobor]

Stealth is my new hero.

Since everyone weighed in with their base camping opinion, I'll bore you with mine:

Base camping sucks, flying over the enemy base bombing the planes sucks, SCUDding the enemy base really really sucks. Whether you have all the flags or not. You want to prove you're a man? Hold the flags when they come gunning for you. Or like Stapuf said, "You can rack up your score by letting the other team regroup and take some flags; then take them back."

(side note: I've been told a couple of times that I was base camping on your server, particularly in El Alamein. The only time I go near the OpFor base is when there's a guy shelling the Coalition base with the SCUD or the SAM. Then I don't see how I could be violating any rule if I'm busy taking out a guy shooting at my team's base. I don't go after anyone else while I'm there - unless he's shooting at me and may prevent me from completing my mission.)

[Armerius]

ok ok ok... 4 pages later and i finally respond!

I was going by the "if we control all the flags rule". and YES, i had the minimap maximized the whole time so i could cancel my assault should we lose a flag... as Paladin or ANY QB would tell you, I play very cleanly and by the rules at ALL times. I have never gotten to really take advantage of the SCUD, so i was really enjoying it, i used no bug in the map, i had a spotter.

Given that we now have an official? rule that bombarding an uncapturable base is spawn killing, i won't do it again... however, i never actually SAW the warning for me to stop... or... suprise!!!! i would have stopped!

well, enough of this crap... i not leaving the server... hell, i'm excited as hell to play with other QB's more than once a week!

in any case, i suppose that's about it... lets let this topic die, PLEASE... i hate to see that i started such a controversy.

now how about starting a SAVAGE chat topic?

[|Robot|Bender]

How about a topic on how great b00bies are......??

[-F7]

One last thing!

I suggest we remove Battle of Easting from the map rotation. It crashes the server sometimes and is also arguably the only map where camping issues come into play.

Unlike most other maps, the first capturable base is TOO far away from home bases for anyone to get out in one piece if the other team has all flags and starts basecamping.

[Salyavin]

however, i never actually SAW the warning for me to stop... or... suprise!!!! i would have stopped!Chalk it up to the message lag bug. It probably affects server manager messages too. Hopefully it will be fixed in the 1.6 patch.

I suggest we remove Battle of Easting from the map rotation. It crashes the server sometimes and is also arguably the only map where camping issues come into play.Wake also has crash issues and Tobruk is unbalanced with the MI-8 (opp's heli spawn point). They don't even need to be removed if people like them... just change the order of the map rotation so that those maps aren't always being replayed after a crash.

Cheers,
Salyavin

[Paladin]

What, us ripping on your l33t c6mp1n8 skilz isn't savage enough?